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https://www.houstoncitybeat.com/blog/meeting-gregg-optekamp?fbclid=IwAR2wygW0EGuibLH64HGAE7_vMYXJkDsnH6YtRBs8GDezdY2IqxRQePHafoU
https://youtu.be/d-GYaIeLCyU?t=25